[Annotation] phenotype or GO-still struggling

Judith Blake jblake at informatics.jax.org
Tue Jul 15 12:38:32 PDT 2008


I'm sorry if I said or implied that all phenotype evidence should be 
annotated with GO. I think I was responding to the idea that SGD was 
*not* using IMP or phenotype data because of lack of specificity.  MGD 
has LOTS of phenotypic experimental data, and certainly not even a tiny 
bit is reflected in a GO annotation.  A given paper may result in 10 MP 
(mammalian phenotype ontology ) term assignments, and one, maybe two 
rather high-level IMP GO annotation.  But if the GO annotations were 
missing, folks looking at data analysis using the GO would miss that 
connection also.  I only suggest that IMP annotations are useful. 

Judy

Biological Process 	regulation of long-term neuronal synaptic plasticity 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/GO.cgi?id=GO:0048169> 	IMP 
MGI:1928283 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928283>|MGI:1928284 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928284> 
	J:62289 <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>

Biological Process 	adult locomotory behavior 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/GO.cgi?id=GO:0008344> 	IMP 
MGI:1928283 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928283>|MGI:1928284 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928284> 
	J:62289 <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>

Biological Process 	startle response 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/GO.cgi?id=GO:0001964> 	IMP 
MGI:1928283 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928283>|MGI:1928284 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928284> 
	J:62289 <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>


http://www.informatics.jax.org/javawi2/servlet/WIFetch?page=markerGO&key=9271

the J:62289 links to the PubMed Abstract

vs

Allele 	Symbol: Grin1^tm1Blt
Name: targeted mutation 1, Horst Bluethmann
ID: MGI:1928283
Synonyms 	Grin1^D481N , Grin1^tm1Jnck
Allele details 	

Allele Type: Targeted (knock-in)
Strain of Origin: 129P2/OlaHsd
ES Cell Line: E14
Mutation: Disruption caused by insertion of vector

    Point mutations were introduced by homologous recombination which
    altered the sequence corresponding to codon 481 from aspartic acid
    to asparagine. A loxP flanked neomycin/thymidine kinase cassette in
    intron 10 was removed by transient Cre recombinase expression,
    leaving one loxP site in the intron. (/J:62289
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>/)
International Mouse Strain Resource: (Search for IMSR strains 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/imsr/fetch?page=imsrSummary&op:gsymname=%3D&gsymname=Grin1&gsymnameBreadth=C> 
with Grin1 mutations)
References and Additional Notes: (See Below 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928283#Additional_Info>)

Gene
information 	Symbol: Grin1 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/javawi2/servlet/WIFetch?page=markerDetail&key=9271> 

Name: glutamate receptor, ionotropic, NMDA1 (zeta 1)
Chromosome: 2
Genetic Position: 12.0 cM
Genome Coordinates: Chr2:25146701-25174707 bp, - strand (From VEGA 
annotation of NCBI Build 37)
Human Ortholog: GRIN1 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/homology_report.cgi?_Marker_key=21602> 

Phenotypes 	
Phenotypic details for all genotypes that include at least one 
Grin1^tm1Blt allele

Allelic Composition 	Genetic Background
Grin1^tm1Blt 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928283>/Grin1^tm1Blt 
<http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:1928283> 
	involves: 129P2/OlaHsd * C57BL/6

behavior/neurological

    abnormal spatial learning
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0001463>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * acquisition of a task in a water maze is impaired, with
          significantly lower escape latencies, however they achieve a
          similar final level of performance as controls


    increased startle reflex
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0001488>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * significantly higher startle response to 90 and 110 dB and a
          lower threshold for startle reactivity


    impaired coordination
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0001405>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * impaired motor coordination in hanging wire test, with
          homozygotes unable to lift hindpaws onto the wire
        * reduced activity in horiontal open field test


    abnormal locomotor activity
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0001392>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * spend significantly more time in the center of a cage than
          controls


    resistance to pharmacologically induced seizures
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0002887>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * less sensitive to intracerebroventricular NMDA-induced convulsions

nervous system

    abnormal nervous system physiology
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0003633>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * exhibit reduced NMDA receptor glycine affinity, but not
          glutamate affinity, and do not have any gross CNS abnormalities


        resistance to pharmacologically induced seizures
        <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0002887>
        (/J:62289/
        <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

            * less sensitive to intracerebroventricular NMDA-induced
              convulsions


        reduced long term potentiation
        <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0001473>
        (/J:62289/
        <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

            * exhibit a deficit in hippocampal theta burst-induced LTP

hearing/vestibular/ear

    increased startle reflex
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0001488>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * significantly higher startle response to 90 and 110 dB and a
          lower threshold for startle reactivity

homeostasis/metabolism

    resistance to pharmacologically induced seizures
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/Phat.cgi?id=MP:0002887>
    (/J:62289/
    <http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/reference.cgi?63233>)

        * less sensitive to intracerebroventricular NMDA-induced convulsions


Karen Christie wrote:
> There's a big difference between saying some GO annotations with IMP 
> evidence are valid and that all IMP evidence should be annotated in GO.
>
> -Karen
>
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Judith Blake wrote:
>
>> Frankly I don't understand why we are having this discussion when we 
>> agree that IMPs are valid annotations.  Of course one might 
>> re-evaluate IMPs with new data.  I don't understand why this is big 
>> news.
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> Karen Christie wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I completely agree with what Val said, including that in both Judy's 
>>> and Harold's examples, I agree that it is appropriate to make 
>>> annotations based on current knowledge.
>>>
>>> I also sometimes come across genes where there is evidence that 
>>> shows/suggests that it has multiple roles. Most recently REX2, which 
>>> is involved in 3'-end processing of various different 
>>> nuclear/nucleolar RNAs, and is also localized to the mitochondrion 
>>> where its role is not clear but it interacts genetically with TRZ1, 
>>> the tRNA 3'-end processing endonuclease. In cases like these, we 
>>> make all the annotations that are supported by experimental 
>>> evidence, even those that may be surprising.
>>>
>>> However, much more frequently, I come across cases where the 
>>> original idea about what a gene did, based solely on its mutant 
>>> phenotype, is later shown to be due to a downstream effect of the 
>>> mutation or to an artifact of the experimental system. In these 
>>> types of cases, we choose not to represent these mutant phenotypes 
>>> as GO annotations. Some examples of known cases for cerevisiae are 
>>> below.
>>>
>>> So, as more is known about a given gene, it seems it is often 
>>> appropriate to reevaluate whether old annotations based on IMP are 
>>> still valid. Sometimes they are and other times they really seem 
>>> inappropriate in light of new knowledge. For multicellular 
>>> organisms, many of these developmental mutants may well turn out to 
>>> be genes specifically involved in that developmental process. I went 
>>> to a talk a couple months ago that said that mammals have 100-1000 
>>> fold more specific regulatory transcription factors than yeast. A 
>>> mutant in one of these might be quite informative as to which 
>>> processes it regulates.
>>>
>>> However, there will surely also be cases where there is something 
>>> else is occurring. For example, a human disease called SCID (Severe 
>>> Combined Immune Deficiency) is caused by deficiency of the enzyme 
>>> adenosine deaminase (ADA). However, I'm not sure one would want to 
>>> say that ADA is involved in immune cell development; it is generally 
>>> active through the body. Rather, when ADA is defective, a toxic 
>>> intermediate builds up and immune and other rapidly dividing cells 
>>> are most sensitive. As the specific effect of ADA mutantions on 
>>> immune cells is a pathology, rather than a normal process, it seems 
>>> outwith the scope of GO to annotate the immune cell effect of ADA 
>>> mutants.
>>>
>>> SGD has also started having large sets of high-throughput mutant 
>>> phenotypes data. We have found that many of these screens identify 
>>> large sets of genes with a given phenotype. However, based on the 
>>> knowledge of what many of these genes do, we have become rather 
>>> leary of making GO annotations wholesale from these large mutant 
>>> phenotype studies because the mutant phenotype doesn't seem to be a 
>>> very specific indicator of the process the gene is involved in. 
>>> We're seeing a lot of these now. We've basically decided that though 
>>> we are quite happy to put these into our phenotype curation 
>>> wholesale, we are not comfortable in making GO annotations based on 
>>> these large scale phenotype screens.
>>>
>>> -Karen
>>>
>>> Some specific examples for cerevisiae:
>>>
>>> 1. cell cycle arrest phenotypes: people looked for things with cell
>>> division cycle (cdc) arrest phenotypes in order to find cell cycle
>>> regulators. Some cdc mutants actually are cell cycle regulators. 
>>> However,
>>> the collection of cdc mutants also includes:
>>> - tRNAs
>>> - tRNA synthetases
>>> - an Hsp90 co-chaperone
>>> - general transcription regulators, e.g. components of the Paf1
>>>         transcription regulatory complex, members of the CCR4/NOT 
>>> complex
>>> - things involved in response to mating pheromone (which do cause G1
>>>         arrest, but which are not thought to be cell cycle regulators)
>>> - eIF4E cytoplasmic mRNA cap binding protein required for translation
>>>
>>> Inhibition of ribosome synthesis can also produce cell cycle arrest. A
>>> couple different U3 snoRNA associated complexes involved in the first
>>> stages of rRNA processing and small ribosomal subunit assembly have
>>> recently been characterized in yeast. U3 and many, if not most, of the
>>> proteins are conserved. Depeleting for most of the individual protein
>>> components of these complexes produces cell cycle arrest.
>>>
>>> So, while SGD would be quite happy to have a cell cycle arrest 
>>> -phenotype-
>>> annotated for every gene, we don't really want to go on and make a GO
>>> process annotation to cell cycle for many of these genes.
>>>
>>> 2. splicing vs translation - A lot of things that turn out to be 
>>> involved in splicing of nuclear mRNAs were originally characterized 
>>> as being involved in translation. This turns out to be due to the 
>>> unusual distribution of introns in S. cerevisiae. Only about 270 
>>> genes, out of 6000, contain introns, and these are predominantly 
>>> found in protein coding genes. Thus splicing defects have a very 
>>> immediate effect on translation due to loss of production of 
>>> ribosomal proteins.
>>>
>>> In light of the knowledge of why splicing mutants cause translation 
>>> defects, we don't want to make GO process annotations to 
>>> translation-related terms for splicing genes even if they do produce 
>>> a translation-specific phenotype.
>>>
>>> 3. AAR2 - This gene was originally thought to be specifically 
>>> required for splicing of MATa1 mRNA because mutant extracts appeared 
>>> specifically defective in splicing this mRNA. It turns out to be due 
>>> to the fact that MATa1 has 2 introns, while almost all other genes 
>>> only have 1, which meant that the assay system ran out of splicing 
>>> components when MATa1 was used, but not when any of the other test 
>>> pre-mRNAs were used. There was actually a specific GO term 
>>> (GO:0006377 - MATa1 (A1) pre-mRNA splicing) based on the original 
>>> mutant characterization of this gene.
>>>
>>> It turns out that Aar2 is actually part of general splicing factor U5
>>> snRNP, and thus required for splicing generally. GO:0006377 was 
>>> obsoleted
>>> because a MATa1-specific splicing process does not occur.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Valerie Wood wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Judy/ Harold,
>>>>
>>>> In both of these examples (your heart development in the power 
>>>> point, and Harolds ribosomal example), we would make these  
>>>> annotations using current practices (so I don't think we are being 
>>>> inconsistent here). I have a similar example to Harolds where a 
>>>> subunit of  RNA polymerase II plays a specialized role in cell 
>>>> separation. This is what the data shows and this is fine.
>>>>
>>>> What Karen and I are saying is that not EVERY annotation which can 
>>>> be made from a phenotype deserves a process annotation in the 
>>>> context of all of the available information.
>>>>
>>>> Some processes which initially appear to be due to a particular 
>>>> phenotype turn out to be downstream effects based on subsequent 
>>>> information. We feel in these cases, where the effect is *known* to 
>>>> be *indirect* effect of an upstream process, then the process 
>>>> annotation based on this phenotype should be removed. It seems 
>>>> increasingly that it is not helpful for our communities using GO to 
>>>> make every annotation for the phenotype, if they are subsequently 
>>>> shown to be a result of an upstream process. This is the feedback I 
>>>> have got from my community, and makes more sense of global analysis.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes the observations initially attributed to cell division 
>>>> defects are actually known to be due to defects in DNA repair or 
>>>> replication because replication is late and cytokinesis  too early 
>>>> cell division is compromised. There are many more dependencies on 
>>>> rRNA processing and translation.
>>>>
>>>> If it is NOT clear (reported) that the phenotype is due to the 
>>>> upstream process, then the IMP process from phenotype would still 
>>>> be valid.This shows a different level of knowledge which can be 
>>>> captured by a curator when more information is available. The 
>>>> phenotypes in these cases are still captured as appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> Probably we have more cases like this because yeast are better 
>>>> studied, and there are many dependencies in cell biology. SGD may 
>>>> have some better examples as they have more legacy data.
>>>>
>>>> Val
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Judith Blake wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I sent a response with ppt and it's waiting to be moderated
>>>>>
>>>>> J
>>>>>
>>>>> Harold Drabkin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, we have to be careful about applying what we 
>>>>>> think we know to ignore what a  mutant phenotypes is telling you, 
>>>>>> because things can be complicated. .I just finished looking at 
>>>>>> one of the ribosomal proteins, Rpl10. There is  very little mouse 
>>>>>> data, but from skimming some other references (human), it appears 
>>>>>> to be originally identified in a screen for tumor suppressors. It 
>>>>>> is unclear why. It appears to be a protein that associates with 
>>>>>> the large subunit after the subunit is exported from the 
>>>>>> nucleus.  However, there is some reference to it's release from 
>>>>>> the 60S ribosomal subunit as a mechanism of transcript-specific 
>>>>>> translational control. This might have been reflected in the 
>>>>>> search for tumor suppressors. Yet another paper describes it is a 
>>>>>> zinc-binding transcription regulatory protein: which can bind to 
>>>>>> c-Jun i ( this binding is dependent upon zinc ions and 
>>>>>> phosphorylation by protein kinase C ). Haven't looked at those 
>>>>>> papers in detail;   But there is something interesting going on 
>>>>>> (no one has done a KO in mouse that I can find which might tell 
>>>>>> us a bit more), and I'm not at all sure one should rule out that 
>>>>>> it participates in other processes other than the one obvious 
>>>>>> from it's name. Just grist for the mill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> h
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valerie Wood wrote:
>>>>>>> I agree completely with Karen/SGD and this has been the 
>>>>>>> procedure I have always followed.
>>>>>>> In the absence of any other information, a mutant phenotype is 
>>>>>>> frequently used to infer a specific process.  Once more 
>>>>>>> information is available it often becomes clear that this is a 
>>>>>>> downstream (indirect affect).
>>>>>>> For example defects in ribosome biogenesis and translation  and 
>>>>>>> general translation will often have plieotrophic affects which 
>>>>>>> are indirect, as it will affect nearly every process downstream 
>>>>>>> (for example there are associated downstream effects in 
>>>>>>> chromosome segregation, cell division, and in multicellular 
>>>>>>> organisms,  multiple developmental processes). This does not 
>>>>>>> mean that a biologist would expect to see the annotations to 
>>>>>>> these processes once the upstream process is known. If we did 
>>>>>>> follow this logic, then we would find that all genes involved in 
>>>>>>> translation, ribosome biogenesis and general replication would 
>>>>>>> eventually become annotated to most other processes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another classic example from yeast is vacuolar targeting. Many 
>>>>>>> mutants result in defects which result in  proteins usually 
>>>>>>> localized to the vacuole becoming mislocalised and were 
>>>>>>> initially interpreted as a defect in protein targeting. It has 
>>>>>>> since become clear that many of these defects are very far 
>>>>>>> upstream of the vacuolar targeting pathway, and this is just a 
>>>>>>> downstream consequence of things being mis folded, mis 
>>>>>>> transcribed etc. Subsequently these annotations have gradually 
>>>>>>> been removed as better information has become available.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the other hand, mutations in a gene may have phenotypic 
>>>>>>> effects which you DO want to capture as processes (for example 
>>>>>>> the effects of phenylalanine hydroxylase on skin pigmentation 
>>>>>>> etc). However you would not necessarily want to curate the 
>>>>>>> effect of a gene involved in all translation initation in a 
>>>>>>> developmental process from a high throughput screen (once better 
>>>>>>> information was avaiable). In Doug's example I would also follow 
>>>>>>> Karen's suggestion and make the annotation if this is possibly 
>>>>>>> specific transcription for the pathway (i.e specific to a subset 
>>>>>>> of genes), but if the defect is definately general transcription 
>>>>>>> I would not make the annotation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not caputuring EVERY phenotype using biological process should 
>>>>>>> not be considered underannotation. The purpose of GO process 
>>>>>>> annotations is to capture processes not phenotypes. Sometimes 
>>>>>>> phenotypes are direct indicators of the process a gene is 
>>>>>>> involved in sometimes they are not.
>>>>>>> A major consequence of making these ubiquitous annotations is 
>>>>>>> that can distort   genome wide analysis (not improve it), and  
>>>>>>> this is often the case when annotations  come from high 
>>>>>>> throughput screens and early experiments. Over the past couple 
>>>>>>> of years cerevisiae and pombe have done a lot of 'tidying' of 
>>>>>>> these legacy annotations, and the genome-wide GO data is much 
>>>>>>> improved and useful as a result.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is also why annotations  to orthologs made using ISS should 
>>>>>>> only be made by a curator on a gene by gene basis and not by an 
>>>>>>> automated process. A curator is able to assess all of the 
>>>>>>> available information to make an ISS annotation (from different 
>>>>>>> organisms) and distinguish between current annotations and 
>>>>>>> legacy annotations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One way to distinguish these is whether the targets are generic 
>>>>>>> (i.e every gene ) or specific (a subset of genes). If the genes 
>>>>>>> targets are a subset of genes then the annotations is  probably 
>>>>>>> valid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Val
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karen Christie <kchris at genome.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I don't think the GOC has ever had a policy, or even a 
>>>>>>>> recommendation, that process annotations should be made from 
>>>>>>>> all mutant phenotypes, nor do I think that it should.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, SGD is currently working on annotating phenotypes 
>>>>>>>> for Cell Division Cycle (CDC) mutants, i.e. mutations which 
>>>>>>>> cause a cell cycle arrest phenotype. Here are some of the ones 
>>>>>>>> I worked on yesterday:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     CDC60   leucyl tRNA synthetase
>>>>>>>>     PRT1    Subunit of eIF3
>>>>>>>>     ALA1    alanyl-tRNA synthetase
>>>>>>>>     CDC65   mitochondrial tRNA-Glu
>>>>>>>>     SPT16   Subunit FACT transcription elongation complex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think that anyone in the yeast community would expect 
>>>>>>>> or want to see any of these genes annotated to a GO process 
>>>>>>>> related to the cell cycle. There are lots of examples of where 
>>>>>>>> a mutant phenotype is due to some downstream effect and not due 
>>>>>>>> to the primary defect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, at SGD, we try to focus on the primary process. Obviously, 
>>>>>>>> we don't always know, but once we do, we like to avoid making 
>>>>>>>> GO annotations for processes that are known to be downstream, 
>>>>>>>> rather than direct, results of the mutation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For Doug's specific example, if comparative data suggested that 
>>>>>>>> the gene was a specific regulatory transcription factor, I'd 
>>>>>>>> probably be inclined to go ahead and make specific process 
>>>>>>>> annotations. However, if comparative data suggested that it was 
>>>>>>>> related to a Pol II general transcription factor, I might not 
>>>>>>>> want to make a GO process annotation to such a specific process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At all of the Annotation Camps, we've always said that one 
>>>>>>>> should be careful when making annotations from mutant 
>>>>>>>> phenotypes. At both of the public ones, the question has come 
>>>>>>>> up of how much to annotate from mutant phenotypes. The answer 
>>>>>>>> we've given has been that if one only has a mutant phenotype to 
>>>>>>>> annotated from, then make the best annotations you can. 
>>>>>>>> However, be aware that as you learn more, you may find that 
>>>>>>>> some of the mutant phenotypes are indirect results rather than 
>>>>>>>> something the gene product is directly involved in, and that in 
>>>>>>>> these cases you may choose to remove process annotations based 
>>>>>>>> on these phenotypes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think this is still good advice, that curator judgement 
>>>>>>>> should play a role in deciding whether a GO process annotation 
>>>>>>>> is merited from any particular mutant phenotype.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Karen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008, Judith Blake wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can understand the duplication of effort, but since the GO 
>>>>>>>>> and phenotype annotations aren't co-mingled in GOdb, the SGD 
>>>>>>>>> genes would I think appear under-annotated if the effect of 
>>>>>>>>> the gene on phenotype is not curated in BP. For comparative 
>>>>>>>>> genomics studies using GO, this would be missing, yet 
>>>>>>>>> available in the literature, information.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for mouse, the phenotype data is effectively 'disfunction' 
>>>>>>>>> data, so the phenotype annotation reflects a different view 
>>>>>>>>> from the GO annotation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Judy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Julie Park wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Doug,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SGD's practice on this is that if it is known that what is 
>>>>>>>>>> being observed is a secondary/downstream effect, then we only 
>>>>>>>>>> capture it via phenotypes and not as a GO process.  However, 
>>>>>>>>>> if the gene product in question is not well characterized or 
>>>>>>>>>> there is a conflict in the literature about whether it is a 
>>>>>>>>>> direct or indirect involvement then we would give it a GO 
>>>>>>>>>> annotation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We've made a decision to use GO to try and capture the 
>>>>>>>>>> primary role of a gene product as much as possible and to 
>>>>>>>>>> reduce the duplication of effort required to capture data 
>>>>>>>>>> both in GO and as phenotypes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just our take on things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> -Julie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 3, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Doug howe wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>>>>>> It still seems like there is a line that has to be drawn 
>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>> We've talked in the past about the scope of a process...when 
>>>>>>>>>>> does it
>>>>>>>>>>> start and when does it end?  A gene that has as it's primary 
>>>>>>>>>>> role
>>>>>>>>>>> regulation of transcription (perhaps binds DNA etc. etc.) 
>>>>>>>>>>> may have a
>>>>>>>>>>> secondary effect upon eye morphogenesis.  However, the 
>>>>>>>>>>> process of eye
>>>>>>>>>>> morphogenesis does not start with the binding of such a gene 
>>>>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>>>>> regulatory sequence...it is a downstream consequence....and 
>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps it
>>>>>>>>>>> is the gene who's expression is being regulated that is 
>>>>>>>>>>> really involved
>>>>>>>>>>> in the downstream process.  It seems like there is a 
>>>>>>>>>>> significant amount
>>>>>>>>>>> of redundant curation work to do if we always annotate both 
>>>>>>>>>>> GO and
>>>>>>>>>>> phenotype using the same GO process terms.  I'm not strongly 
>>>>>>>>>>> opposed to
>>>>>>>>>>> such annotations, I just want to revisit the discussion and 
>>>>>>>>>>> see if
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has other views on the issue.
>>>>>>>>>>> -Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> David Hill wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do this all the time. I just finished systematically 
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing all the homeobox genes in mouse. Many of them are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> annotated to things like pattern specification. I think in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the future, it will be very nice to know these are playing 
>>>>>>>>>>>> roles in regulating transcription but that regulation is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamental in other processes as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug howe wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm still struggling with the issue of whether to make a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO annotation (processes in particular) or only phenotype 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> annotation. The zebrafish literature is replete with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mutant papers that often describe phenotypes involving 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> eyes, otic vesicles, or pharyngeal arches, organ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> development etc.   Often, the IEA annotations for a gene 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to indicate that the gene is binding DNA, and may be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some sort of transcriptional regulator. Should such a gene 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be annotated with GO terms like 'otic vesicle 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> development', or 'eye morphogenesis', or should that be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> left for phenotype annotations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>> Doug Howe, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>>>>> ZFIN Scientific Curator
>>>>>>>>>>> Zebrafish Nomenclature Coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Annotation mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Annotation at geneontology.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://fafner.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/annotation
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Annotation mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>> Valerie Wood             Tel: 01223 496909
>>>> S. pombe Genome Project         Fax: 01223 494919 Wellcome Trust 
>>>> Sanger Institute     email: val at sanger.ac.uk
>>>> Wellcome Trust Genome Campus     http://www.genedb.org/genedb/pombe 
>>>> Hinxton, Cambridge, CB10 1HH     
>>>> http://www.sanger.ac.uk/Projects/S_pombe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research 
>>>> Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a 
>>>> company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered 
>>>> office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE. 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Annotation mailing list
>>>> Annotation at geneontology.org
>>>> http://fafner.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/annotation
>>>>
>>
>>




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