[Annotation] annotating ribosomal proteins

Rama Balakrishnan rama at genome.stanford.edu
Thu Jun 26 12:20:50 PDT 2008


Hi Judy,

Comment below.

On Jun 25, 2008, at 4:51 AM, Judith Blake wrote:

> Rama,
>
> I agree that the solution needs to go beyond ReactomeIDs.  However,  
> there are many other complex resources, and my summer intern is in  
> the process of collecting a more global (one would hope  
> comprehensive) list of complexes with IDs from these other  
> resources.  So putting a complex ID in the 'with' field seems  
> correct.  And allowing the GO:ID seems correct too
>
> I think distinguishing between 'member of complex' and 'interacts  
> with complex' is very important.    The CC assignment places a gp in  
> a complex.  I think using the IPI code here, while technically  
> defensible, might result in the confusion.  Would this be a place  
> that IPI with 'co-localizes' would clarify the distinction?

Hmm...I don't think I follow your last sentence completely.
So far, we have used Qualifiers to qualify the GO term and not the  
evidence. And we don't use qualifiers for Process terms.  
Contributes_to is specifically meant for Function, and co_localizes is  
meant for CC.

Thanks,

Rama



>
>
> judy
>
> Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am sure all the other groups annotating ribosomal genes are  
>> facing the same issue. I would like to hear from you about the new  
>> proposal for IPI or if you have other suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rama
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2008, at 2:53 PM, Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> 1) Although there is a REACTOME ID for the yeast ribosome complex,  
>>> I think a better solution would be to allow the GOID for the  
>>> complex in the 'with' column for IPI. This is because, Reactome  
>>> has IDs only for human and yeast, and this solution won't scale  
>>> for other organisms.
>>>
>>> 2) If we move towards the idea of using IPI in this fashion, we  
>>> also need to update the documentation for IPI because by saying  
>>> that the subunit interacts physically with the complex, one could  
>>> infer that the subunit peripherally interacts with the complex as  
>>> oppose to inferring that the subunit is part of the complex.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Rama
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:25 AM, D'Eustachio, Peter wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Midori,
>>>>
>>>> We do have such identifiers (though in general - this case is an  
>>>> exception - only for human proteins and complexes) and this  
>>>> sounds like a legitimate use of them, but it also seems like a  
>>>> kind of hack around the basic problem. Earlier in this thread,  
>>>> someone pointed to one paper that supports the assertion  
>>>> "ribosomes are required for translation to occur", and another  
>>>> that supports the assertion "subunit X is required for the  
>>>> assembly of a complete ribosome", but no single paper that  
>>>> asserts "the ribosomes that actually participate in translation  
>>>> have been shown to contain subunit X", and so we are left to draw  
>>>> this conclusion by inference, reading the two papers in  
>>>> succession. I guess all of this violates the principle that there  
>>>> should be a 1:1:1 mapping of protein : GO term : publication and  
>>>> evidence code. Here, Reactome has silently done the inference so  
>>>> formally you can make a 1:1:1 relationship, but there's still a  
>>>> hidden multi-step inference in there.
>>>>
>>>> That said, we live by that hack - our unit of curation is the  
>>>> reaction, and I have yet to find the reaction all of whose  
>>>> attributes can be annotated without combining evidence assertions  
>>>> inferentially from multiple papers.
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: annotation-bounces at genome.stanford.edu on behalf of Midori  
>>>> Harris
>>>> Sent: Wed 6/18/2008 5:02 AM
>>>> To: Karen Christie
>>>> Cc: GO Annotation list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Annotation] annotating ribosomal proteins
>>>>
>>>> Reactome has identifiers for complexes ... could you use IPI with  
>>>> the
>>>> Reactome ID for the ribosome? (E.g. S. cerevisiae ribosome is
>>>> Reactome:141693; H. sapiens is 72500.)
>>>>
>>>> If this is a stupid idea, I'll bow out quietly ... it's been a  
>>>> long, long
>>>> time since I did annotation.
>>>>
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Karen Christie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As of the 2006 Annotation camp, we agreed that IPI could only be  
>>>>> used when
>>>>> you know it is a direct interaction and that you should fill the  
>>>>> with column
>>>>> with the directly interacting gene products.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prior to that, I often used to use IPI for the proteins that  
>>>>> came down in a
>>>>> complex, and for 'modern' purifications where one protein was  
>>>>> tagged, I'd put
>>>>> that one in the with column. But we agreed that it isn't known  
>>>>> that this is
>>>>> direct, so we quit doing it. I've been having the same problem  
>>>>> with
>>>>> spliceosomal complexes and have become rather unkeen on the  
>>>>> decision that IPI
>>>>> could only be used for known direct interactions. It seems that  
>>>>> this
>>>>> requirement got added by the people who want to use the IPI with  
>>>>> field as a
>>>>> protein-protein interaction database.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I thought that IPI with the tagged protein seemed like a  
>>>>> much better
>>>>> representation of the evidence for the process than IDA. Coming  
>>>>> down as part
>>>>> of a complex doesn't seem like a direct assay for process. IPI  
>>>>> with one of
>>>>> the proteins in the complex seems like a better representation  
>>>>> of what was
>>>>> actually done, but we can't do now that because of the direct  
>>>>> interaction
>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>> IC also seems a little unsatisfying, since it's not  
>>>>> experimental. I don't
>>>>> know, maybe for complexes as well characterized as the ribosome,  
>>>>> or the
>>>>> spliceosome, just being in the complex is direct evidence that  
>>>>> it's part of
>>>>> the process that the complex is experimentally characterized to  
>>>>> be part of...
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been a bit muddled about how best to deal with these ever  
>>>>> since the 2006
>>>>> Annotation camp. I liked using IPI better than IDA...
>>>>>
>>>>> -Karen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Pascale Gaudet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you then IPI the process?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug howe wrote:
>>>>>>    I think:
>>>>>>    "the IDA is just for the annotation to the complex term and  
>>>>>> then use
>>>>>> IC from the
>>>>>>    complex term for the Process annotation"
>>>>>>    is the way to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Karen Christie wrote:
>>>>>>          Hi Pascale,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          Rama is looking at the original papers, and ribosomes  
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> processes
>>>>>>          of ribosome assembly are probably better characterized  
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> cerevisiae
>>>>>>          than in any other eukaryote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          The real issue here is that what has been shown is  
>>>>>> that protein
>>>>>> X is
>>>>>>          part of a big complex, e.g. the ribosome, for which the
>>>>>> function is
>>>>>>          known. The sum total of the experimental evidence  
>>>>>> available for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>          significant number of ribosomal proteins is that they  
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> purified as
>>>>>>          part of the ribosome complex. So, for component, it's  
>>>>>> easy.
>>>>>> This is IDA
>>>>>>          evidence that protein X is in the ribosome, or in the  
>>>>>> Small
>>>>>> SubUnit
>>>>>>          (SSU) or in the Large SubUnit (LSU), or whatever  
>>>>>> complex is
>>>>>>          characterized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          But is being in the ribosome considered to be IDA  
>>>>>> evidence for
>>>>>> a process
>>>>>>          annotation to translation? In one way of looking at  
>>>>>> it, the
>>>>>> direct assay
>>>>>>          is that it's part of a complex and then you're  
>>>>>> assuming that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>          individual protein is involved in translation because  
>>>>>> it's in
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>          complex. Is this a direct assay for being involved in
>>>>>> translation? Can
>>>>>>          we use IDA for a process annotation? or is it a more  
>>>>>> accurate
>>>>>> statement
>>>>>>          to say that the IDA is just for the annotation to the  
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> term and
>>>>>>          then use IC from the complex term for the Process  
>>>>>> annotation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          -Karen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Pascale Gaudet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Hi Rama,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                I think this is a perfect case where one of us  
>>>>>> should go
>>>>>>                back to the original papers and find
>>>>>>                what we all need to ISS to (in which organism  
>>>>>> the funtion
>>>>>>                and process were shown).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Pascale
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
>>>>>>                      Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                      I have couple of ribosomal proteins to  
>>>>>> annotate as
>>>>>>                part of the ref-genome curation
>>>>>>                      project. Turns out that there is no direct
>>>>>>                experimental evidence showing that these
>>>>>>                      proteins are involved in translation.  
>>>>>> Almost all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>                studies purify the ribosome
>>>>>>                      from yeast and identify the subunits by  
>>>>>> one or more
>>>>
>>>>>>                techniques.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                      I can do IDA for CC annotation, that is
>>>>>>                straightforward. Is IDA for function
>>>>>>                      annotation- structural constituent of  
>>>>>> ribsomome
>>>>>> okay?
>>>>>>                What about BP? I can do IC
>>>>>>                      from the CC term, but that is not direct
>>>>>> experimental
>>>>>>                evidence. What do you all
>>>>>>                      think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                      Thanks for your time,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                      Rama
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                       
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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