[Annotation] annotating ribosomal proteins

Judith Blake jblake at informatics.jax.org
Fri Jun 27 09:18:57 PDT 2008


Here's what I was thinking.

IPI for the binding
with the GO:complexID in the "with" field

and the 'co-localizes' as the qualifier.

Thus, the gene product 'colocalizes' with 'complexID' by evidence code 'IPI'

which is different than


Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
> Hi Judy,
>
> Comment below.
>
> On Jun 25, 2008, at 4:51 AM, Judith Blake wrote:
>
>> Rama,
>>
>> I agree that the solution needs to go beyond ReactomeIDs.  However, 
>> there are many other complex resources, and my summer intern is in 
>> the process of collecting a more global (one would hope 
>> comprehensive) list of complexes with IDs from these other 
>> resources.  So putting a complex ID in the 'with' field seems 
>> correct.  And allowing the GO:ID seems correct too
>>
>> I think distinguishing between 'member of complex' and 'interacts 
>> with complex' is very important.    The CC assignment places a gp in 
>> a complex.  I think using the IPI code here, while technically 
>> defensible, might result in the confusion.  Would this be a place 
>> that IPI with 'co-localizes' would clarify the distinction?
>
> Hmm...I don't think I follow your last sentence completely.
> So far, we have used Qualifiers to qualify the GO term and not the 
> evidence. And we don't use qualifiers for Process terms. 
> Contributes_to is specifically meant for Function, and co_localizes is 
> meant for CC.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rama
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> judy
>>
>> Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am sure all the other groups annotating ribosomal genes are facing 
>>> the same issue. I would like to hear from you about the new proposal 
>>> for IPI or if you have other suggestions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Rama
>>>
>>> On Jun 18, 2008, at 2:53 PM, Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> 1) Although there is a REACTOME ID for the yeast ribosome complex, 
>>>> I think a better solution would be to allow the GOID for the 
>>>> complex in the 'with' column for IPI. This is because, Reactome has 
>>>> IDs only for human and yeast, and this solution won't scale for 
>>>> other organisms.
>>>>
>>>> 2) If we move towards the idea of using IPI in this fashion, we 
>>>> also need to update the documentation for IPI because by saying 
>>>> that the subunit interacts physically with the complex, one could 
>>>> infer that the subunit peripherally interacts with the complex as 
>>>> oppose to inferring that the subunit is part of the complex.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Rama
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:25 AM, D'Eustachio, Peter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Midori,
>>>>>
>>>>> We do have such identifiers (though in general - this case is an 
>>>>> exception - only for human proteins and complexes) and this sounds 
>>>>> like a legitimate use of them, but it also seems like a kind of 
>>>>> hack around the basic problem. Earlier in this thread, someone 
>>>>> pointed to one paper that supports the assertion "ribosomes are 
>>>>> required for translation to occur", and another that supports the 
>>>>> assertion "subunit X is required for the assembly of a complete 
>>>>> ribosome", but no single paper that asserts "the ribosomes that 
>>>>> actually participate in translation have been shown to contain 
>>>>> subunit X", and so we are left to draw this conclusion by 
>>>>> inference, reading the two papers in succession. I guess all of 
>>>>> this violates the principle that there should be a 1:1:1 mapping 
>>>>> of protein : GO term : publication and evidence code. Here, 
>>>>> Reactome has silently done the inference so formally you can make 
>>>>> a 1:1:1 relationship, but there's still a hidden multi-step 
>>>>> inference in there.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, we live by that hack - our unit of curation is the 
>>>>> reaction, and I have yet to find the reaction all of whose 
>>>>> attributes can be annotated without combining evidence assertions 
>>>>> inferentially from multiple papers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: annotation-bounces at genome.stanford.edu on behalf of Midori 
>>>>> Harris
>>>>> Sent: Wed 6/18/2008 5:02 AM
>>>>> To: Karen Christie
>>>>> Cc: GO Annotation list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Annotation] annotating ribosomal proteins
>>>>>
>>>>> Reactome has identifiers for complexes ... could you use IPI with the
>>>>> Reactome ID for the ribosome? (E.g. S. cerevisiae ribosome is
>>>>> Reactome:141693; H. sapiens is 72500.)
>>>>>
>>>>> If this is a stupid idea, I'll bow out quietly ... it's been a 
>>>>> long, long
>>>>> time since I did annotation.
>>>>>
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Karen Christie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As of the 2006 Annotation camp, we agreed that IPI could only be 
>>>>>> used when
>>>>>> you know it is a direct interaction and that you should fill the 
>>>>>> with column
>>>>>> with the directly interacting gene products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Prior to that, I often used to use IPI for the proteins that came 
>>>>>> down in a
>>>>>> complex, and for 'modern' purifications where one protein was 
>>>>>> tagged, I'd put
>>>>>> that one in the with column. But we agreed that it isn't known 
>>>>>> that this is
>>>>>> direct, so we quit doing it. I've been having the same problem with
>>>>>> spliceosomal complexes and have become rather unkeen on the 
>>>>>> decision that IPI
>>>>>> could only be used for known direct interactions. It seems that this
>>>>>> requirement got added by the people who want to use the IPI with 
>>>>>> field as a
>>>>>> protein-protein interaction database.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I thought that IPI with the tagged protein seemed like a 
>>>>>> much better
>>>>>> representation of the evidence for the process than IDA. Coming 
>>>>>> down as part
>>>>>> of a complex doesn't seem like a direct assay for process. IPI 
>>>>>> with one of
>>>>>> the proteins in the complex seems like a better representation of 
>>>>>> what was
>>>>>> actually done, but we can't do now that because of the direct 
>>>>>> interaction
>>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IC also seems a little unsatisfying, since it's not experimental. 
>>>>>> I don't
>>>>>> know, maybe for complexes as well characterized as the ribosome, 
>>>>>> or the
>>>>>> spliceosome, just being in the complex is direct evidence that 
>>>>>> it's part of
>>>>>> the process that the complex is experimentally characterized to 
>>>>>> be part of...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been a bit muddled about how best to deal with these ever 
>>>>>> since the 2006
>>>>>> Annotation camp. I liked using IPI better than IDA...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Karen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Pascale Gaudet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you then IPI the process?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug howe wrote:
>>>>>>>    I think:
>>>>>>>    "the IDA is just for the annotation to the complex term and 
>>>>>>> then use
>>>>>>> IC from the
>>>>>>>    complex term for the Process annotation"
>>>>>>>    is the way to go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Doug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Karen Christie wrote:
>>>>>>>          Hi Pascale,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          Rama is looking at the original papers, and ribosomes 
>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>> processes
>>>>>>>          of ribosome assembly are probably better characterized in
>>>>>>> cerevisiae
>>>>>>>          than in any other eukaryote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          The real issue here is that what has been shown is that 
>>>>>>> protein
>>>>>>> X is
>>>>>>>          part of a big complex, e.g. the ribosome, for which the
>>>>>>> function is
>>>>>>>          known. The sum total of the experimental evidence 
>>>>>>> available for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>          significant number of ribosomal proteins is that they are
>>>>>>> purified as
>>>>>>>          part of the ribosome complex. So, for component, it's 
>>>>>>> easy.
>>>>>>> This is IDA
>>>>>>>          evidence that protein X is in the ribosome, or in the 
>>>>>>> Small
>>>>>>> SubUnit
>>>>>>>          (SSU) or in the Large SubUnit (LSU), or whatever 
>>>>>>> complex is
>>>>>>>          characterized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          But is being in the ribosome considered to be IDA 
>>>>>>> evidence for
>>>>>>> a process
>>>>>>>          annotation to translation? In one way of looking at it, 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> direct assay
>>>>>>>          is that it's part of a complex and then you're assuming 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>          individual protein is involved in translation because 
>>>>>>> it's in
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>          complex. Is this a direct assay for being involved in
>>>>>>> translation? Can
>>>>>>>          we use IDA for a process annotation? or is it a more 
>>>>>>> accurate
>>>>>>> statement
>>>>>>>          to say that the IDA is just for the annotation to the 
>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>> term and
>>>>>>>          then use IC from the complex term for the Process 
>>>>>>> annotation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          -Karen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>          On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Pascale Gaudet wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                Hi Rama,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                I think this is a perfect case where one of us 
>>>>>>> should go
>>>>>>>                back to the original papers and find
>>>>>>>                what we all need to ISS to (in which organism the 
>>>>>>> funtion
>>>>>>>                and process were shown).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                Pascale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                Rama Balakrishnan wrote:
>>>>>>>                      Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                      I have couple of ribosomal proteins to 
>>>>>>> annotate as
>>>>>>>                part of the ref-genome curation
>>>>>>>                      project. Turns out that there is no direct
>>>>>>>                experimental evidence showing that these
>>>>>>>                      proteins are involved in translation. 
>>>>>>> Almost all
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>                studies purify the ribosome
>>>>>>>                      from yeast and identify the subunits by one 
>>>>>>> or more
>>>>>
>>>>>>>                techniques.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                      I can do IDA for CC annotation, that is
>>>>>>>                straightforward. Is IDA for function
>>>>>>>                      annotation- structural constituent of 
>>>>>>> ribsomome
>>>>>>> okay?
>>>>>>>                What about BP? I can do IC
>>>>>>>                      from the CC term, but that is not direct
>>>>>>> experimental
>>>>>>>                evidence. What do you all
>>>>>>>                      think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                      Thanks for your time,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                      Rama
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                      
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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